You could have let him have his minute.

People bake and learn basic chemistry. The baseline of general programming knowledge could be more than zero. It’s a fundamental part of our society.

Explicit programmers are needed because the general public has failed to learn programming. Hiding the complexity behind nice interfaces makes it actually more difficult to understand programming.

This comes all from programmers using programs to abstract programming away.

What if the 2030s change the approach and use AI to teach everybody how to program?