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Cake day: November 30th, 2024

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  • I tend to side with Francois-Igor Pris who argues that you cannot meaningfully have a philosophy that both includes an objective world and also describes it as dependent upon observation/engagement without it running into an infinite regress.

    We can only ever know that our act of observation disturbs a system by comparing it to a more subtle form of observation which presumably does not or perturbs it very little. We know the Hawthorne effect is real because you can compare an experiment where a person is observed in a very obvious way where they are clearly aware of it to one where the observation is secretive, and interviewing them later you can confirm they were not aware of it.

    But if we are talking about reality being fundamentally dependent upon observation, then this dependence applies to all observations by definition, and thus there is no such thing as a non-subtle observation that you could compare it to. You could never actually empirically confirm that your act of observation is something that is active that physically alters the system. You would have no control to compare

    Indeed, there is kind of an infinite regress here that Pris explains in his book Контекстуальный квантовый реализм и другие интерпретации квантовой механики.

    1. If observation is taken to be an active process that alters the system, then the properties of the system are observer-dependent, in the sense that the observed facts depend on an interaction between observer and system. It therefore becomes necessary to explain how this interaction itself gives rise to the definite facts that are observed.
    2. But an interaction between two systems cannot, by itself, constitute an observed fact. Any interaction can only be identified as such from the standpoint of a third system relative to which the interaction has determinate features.
    3. This third system must itself observe or register the interaction, which again requires an interaction that alters the combined system.
    4. If this observation is also treated as an active, perturbing process, then it too requires a further system to account for how it produces definite facts.
    5. Repeating this reasoning leads to an infinite regress: every observation that is supposed to produce facts must itself be observed in order to become a fact.
    6. Therefore, any theory that treats observation as a physical interaction responsible for generating facts cannot, on its own terms, account for the existence of facts without either an arbitrary stopping point or an infinite regress.

    Observation at a fundamental level has to be treated as passive, and thus must always be treated as observer-independent or else it leads to a vicious logical circle. An objective world (one that contains “facts”) that is observer-dependent is just not logically consistent.

    This does seem a bit strange, because clearly what I observer is different from what you observe, so it seems like there is a kind of “observer-dependence.” But what the philosopher Jocelyn Benoist has argued as well as Pris is that we should distinguish between observer-dependence and contextuality.

    If I am sitting on a bench and see a moving train go by, and you are inside the train, we will both perceive the train to be traveling at different velocities. Velocity is sometimes described as “observer-dependence,” but this implies that velocity somehow depends upon the existence of conscious observers and is thus subjective, when this is wrong. Velocity is clearly an objective feature of the world and has no fundamental dependent upon conscious observers, as you can define velocity even relative to inanimate things like a rock that is sitting beside the track.

    The physical reality of velocity would be obvious if I stepped onto the tracks in the path of the train. You would not be harmed, as you are riding the train thus its velocity from your perspective is zero, but I would be harmed because the velocity of the train in my perspective is non-zero. No one would be surprised if I got harmed because “velocity is subjective” or “observer-dependent,” we all intuitively understand that velocity is a real, objective feature of the world.

    The main premise of “contextual realist” philosophy as Benoist and Pris call it is to remove the anthropomorphic character from this kind of difference in perspective, to stop calling it “observer-dependent” as if conscious observers play some sort of fundamental role here. It is more accurate to call it contextual. You and I perceive the train to travel at different velocities because we are perceiving it under different contexts.

    Contextual realism takes all physical properties of the world to be contextual in the sense that they only can be meaningfully assigned an ontology once you specify the context under which it is realized. The train’s velocity, between you and I, is realized in a different context, and so it really is ontologically different. Contextual realism extends this to all things. All of reality is context-dependent, but not observer-dependent. The conscious observer plays no fundamental role, and what they observe is always, on a fundamental level, passive and just identifies what is really there, but what is there depends upon the context under which the observation is made.


  • Why is it that descriptions arising from different contexts do not fragment, but instead remain coherent as a single world at all?

    I’d say it’s ultimately because not all things are relative. Some things do acquire consistent values in different perspectives. Velocity of a train might be relative but acceleration is not, it’s an absolute property which everyone can agree on who is accelerating and who is not. These absolute properties exist sort of as anchor points that make perspective transitions consistent between one another. Quantum mechanics is relative/contextual for all the variable properties of particles, but the intrinsic properties are absolute, like charge and spin, which again serves as an anchor point.

    This paper also goes into detail on how the logic of quantum mechanics also pushes relative facts to become “stable” facts on macroscopic scales through the process of decoherence. The logic of the theory guarantees that even if you are making a purely relative prediction you will always predict that if you observe something and immediately ask someone else to observe it then they would perceive the same thing, and so the more things that “observe” it (not necessarily people but even the environment interacting with it) causes the relative property to become more stable among all observers involved.

    But there is method in this madness. If I know that you have looked at the butterfly’s wings, and you tell me that they were blue, I know that if I look at them I will see them as blue: this is what the theory predicts, despite the fact that properties are relative. The fragmentation of points of view, the multiplicity of perspectives opened up by the fact that properties are only relative, is repaired, made coherent, by this consistency, which is an intrinsic part of the grammar of the theory. This consistency is the basis of the intersubjectivity that grounds the objectivity of our communal vision of the world.

    — Carlo Rovelli, Helgoland


  • I take a similar position of the philosopher Jocelyn Benoist and the physicist Francois-Igor Pris, which is the view that reality is deeply contextual. That means it makes no sense to make ontological statements that are independent of some sort of real-world context. If I point to a tree and identify something in reality as a tree and we can go look at that tree over there and agree it is tree, that is very different than talking about trees in the abstract. The real tree is something we can really observe in a real-world context under which it is identified. An abstract (metaphysical) tree is the “tree in itself,” a tree considered in complete isolation independent of any real-world context under which it is identified, which we deny such a thing meaningfully has ontology.

    The problem with idealists is that they conflate contextuality with subjectivism. An observer in a moving train and one beside it on a bench watching it fly by will observe it to travel at different velocities. These differences are clearly not subjective as they have real-world consequences. If they both had a radar gun they would literally measure different velocities. If both are in the same path of the train, only one would get harmed. There is clearly nothing subjective about the differences in what they observe.

    Two observers observe different things velocities for the same train because they are observing it under different contexts. Velocity is a property that does not even make sense without specifying the context under which it is being talked about, but velocity also is not subjective nor is it dependent upon conscious observers or whatever. You can talk about velocity in relation to inanimate objects as well, like a camera left beside the track. You can later collect the camera, look at its footage, and talk about what the velocity of the train that past by on the footage would have been in relation to the camera.

    We need to separate subjectivism and contextuality and realize that just because something differs between observers does not mean it is “subjective” or inherent to conscious observers. Things can differ between observers because reality itself is just deeply contextual. In a sense, yes, what we observe is reality as it exists independent of conscious observers, but not independent of the context under which we make our observation.

    Bizarrely, people find this concept intuitive in Galilean and Einsteinian relativity, but when they come across quantum mechanics, which is also a deeply contextual theory but in a slightly different way, their brains explode. You have people like Wigner who pointed out that two different observers will give different mathematical descriptions of the same system in his famous “Wigner’s friend” paradox, and concludes therefore quantum mechanics has something to do with “consciousness.”

    It’s a bit strange to me. Why do people’s heads explode when going from the contextual nature of relativity theory to the contextual nature of quantum mechanics? Just accept that the natural world will be described/accounted for differently under different contexts then all the “mystery” goes away. Quantum mechanics is indeed a description of the world as it exists independently of conscious observers, but not independently of the context. If you just accept that and move on then quantum mechanics stops being such a mysterious theory.

    Independently from the means of their identification, there are no events. The reduction of a wave function in the «process of measurement» is not a real physical process, requiring an explanation, but a move to a context of measurement of a concrete value of a physical quantity. Respectively, the measurement is not a physical interaction leading to a change in the state of a system, but the identification of a contextual physical reality. That is, in a sense, in measuring (always in a context), one identifies just the fragment of reality where the (quantum) correlation takes place. As the elements of reality, the correlated events do not arise; they are.Only their identifications do arise.

    https://arxiv.org/abs/2107.10666

    The measurement/observation is absolutely passive and cannot be said to be active in any way (such as “stabilizing” something). I just wrote up a long discussion on this here. This is the core of the measurement problem which most people seem to misunderstand, which is two conflicting statements that the measurement appears to be perturbing in some experiments (like double-slit), yet if you introducing an active (perturbing) measurement then you must inherently contradict with the mathematics of orthodox quantum theory.

    You thus have to abandon the idea that the measurement is active if you want to remain consistent with the orthodox formulation of quantum theory. Assuming that is something you actually desire to do. Personally, I am more of a philosopher than a physicist so I do not feel it is my job to replace the mathematics of the theory with another one, and so I try to remain within the orthodox formulation in my interpretation, which requires me to abandon the notion of an active measurement process, no matter how counter-intuitive that may seem, as it is the only way to resolve the measurement problem within the orthodox framework.

    Reality does not “arise” during observation, it just is. What “arises” is our identification of something within reality within that real-world context. “Standpoints” don’t in any sense imply subjectivism. A “standpoint” is just the context under which you identify something in reality, i.e. the real-world situation in which those things you identified in reality were actually realized. The fact nature is fundamentally “standpoint” dependent says nothing about consciousness or subjectivity or minds like idealists try to make it out to seem.

    Even if the context under which I make an observation by definition includes “I” and thus by definition it has dependence upon myself, that does not prove conscious beings are fundamental to reality as a whole, nor does it even prove my observation is “subjective,” because I am also real and so taken into account my own reality is considering the real-world as it really is. If the context under which I make a particular observation includes that of my real physical brain or the structure of my real physical eyes that play a role in what I perceive, then those are real physical parts of reality just as much as anything else and what I observe.

    I like to give an analogy of a painter painting a flame. Is there any arrangement of the paint he can make that is so accurate to a real flame that the paper it is written on suddenly bursts into flames and becomes a physical flame? Of course not. Any arrangement of the paint will always still just produce a painting. Rearranging the medium cannot transcend the medium. No rearrangement of reality my brain or eyes could make can possibly transcend reality and become something not real. They are all part of the very real processes that shape the context of what I really perceive in reality, as it really is, without any veil or barrier.